[Proposal][Autopass][Objection][Amendment][R&U] Genre-bound magic items

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Proposal Type: Bylaw Revision
Opened: 10-Jul-2019 12:00AM EDT
Closing: 12-Jul-2019 12:00AM EDT

The following proposal is put forward jointly by the offices of the Changeling Coord, the Changing Breeds Coord, the Mage Coord and the Setite Coord. We propose the following bylaw additions:

j.ii.2 The use, for supernatural benefit, of Wonders, Charms, Fetishes and other magic items created with Sphere magic, excluding Talismans and Trinkets, by non-mages/non-sorcerers/non-hedge magicians. PC: Coordinator approval NPC: None.

 f.ii.4 The use, for supernatural benefit, of Fetishes, Talens, Flyfots or other magic items created with changing breed Rites or powers, by non-changing breeds/non-kinfolk. PC: Coordinator approval NPC: None.

h.iii. New Category: Items. 1. The use, for supernatural benefit, of Treasures, Chimera, Wonders (C20: Player's guide versions) and other magic items associated with the Dreaming or Changeling genre by non-changelings/non-chimera/non-gallain/non-kinain. PCs: Coordinator approval NPC: None.

k.ii. New Category: Items. 1. The use, for supernatural benefit, of Alchemical Items, Talismans, Wards, Effigies and other items which are created through the use of Hekau or other powers of the mummy genre by non-Mummies, non-Variant Mummies, Non-Bane Mummies. PCs: Coordinator approval NPC: None.


(Please note: despite the shared names, the wording of this does not include hedge magic wards, alchemical items, etc.)


Grandfathering: Limited. This may occur in one of two ways:

1.       Any item may be grandfathered but must be changed to be a ‘generic’ magic item unlinked to the parent genres. A PC vampire who currently has a klaive with a war spirit in it to always deal agg may have their item changed to a silver knife which always does agg. But it would not be a changing-breeds created fetish, not powered by gnosis and not associated with that genre.

2.       The item may continue to be owned, but it will not grant any supernatural benefits to the owner. They could continue to stab people with it and it would still be a garou klaive, but they could not employ its supernatural powers.

3.       PCs and STs would have 30 days to choose one of the two above options.



1.       Why is this regulation needed?

The simple answer is that players using items from other genres isn’t really supported in any books and has been an issue for a while. It continues to occur and while not every game allows them, they none-the-less represent a considerable breach of genre norms. The coords above have seen dozens of examples of this, if not more. 

2.       Why this wording?

This change seeks to be narrowly targeted: we are not looking to deny PCs magical items on a conceptual level. PCs may continue to acquire and use magic items of their own genres as well as the numerous variations of ‘generic’ magic items, ranging from those with no identifiable source to those made with mortal magic. Further, they may continue to acquire items from other genres to have as trophies or curiosities: a venture may absolutely keep a grand klaive mounted on their wall to impress others with.

3.       What about vampire-made magic items?

It is not the experience of those coords proposing this change that vampire-made magic items see much (if any) use across other genres. This is possibly due to the nature of vampire as a genre with no Background for magic items and which, arguably, is meant to have fewer such items. Cultural prohibitions against ‘tainted’ vampire magic also exist in other genres. Either way, if it becomes an issue, we will address it.

4.       Cross-genre?

All of the coord offices here, to one degree or another, support the carefully-managed, appropriate existence of cross-genre interactions However, such is ideally carried out for the sake of interconnectivity, interesting storylines and promoting inclusivity. Cross-genre is not meant as a tool for improving mechanical efficacy and, unfortunately, it is at times used rather extensively as such. These changes do seek to discourage that activity. Not only because it isn’t particularly genre, but also because it can create numerous problems which we, as coords, have encountered: STs may end up with mechanics they are not familiar with while feeling pressured to accept items into their games. They may then be alarmed at the balance issues these create. Players who dislike cross-genre, either for IC or OOC reasons, may feel disadvantaged if they lack access to other-genre magic items as a route for statistical advantage. Finally, it may unduly incentivize less appropriate cross-genre interactions for players who seek mechanical advantages.

5.       What is the practical impact?

Games wishing to be heavy with magic items may continue to do so. We simply ask that they choose “generic” or not-specifically-genre-linked items to do so. We are not seeking to prevent vampires from running around with magical fiery swords; simply that those swords not be Treasures, a mechanic meant for a different genre. Further, if PCs wish to keep magical items from other genres as bargaining chips, trophies or souvenirs, they may do so; but not for the purpose of gaining supernatural powers or effects.

6.       Further magic item regulation?

This seeks to be narrow in its application. Many within the org have described an appetite for stricter magic item regulation and may wish this proposal to impose firmer restrictions. Such broad sweeping changes are beyond the scope of this proposal. The coordinators here listed simply wish our magic items to remain within our genres. It is, however, entirely possible (even probable) that those here, while working with other coords and CMs, will seek to curb the mechanical impact of the magic item culture which has, in the views of some, become problematic in the org. That, however, will require careful discussion and refinement which will take time to craft. This proposal seeks less to contain mechanical imbalance and more to maintain genre standards.  


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